Interview #1 with Muslim Exorcist

Interview No. 1

Location: Cairo, EgyptDate: 9/8/88
Name: Shaykh Muhammad Taahir ‘Abdul-Muhsin
Date of birth: 1952
Place of birth: Cairo
Education: BA in Islâmic Studies from al-Azhar University, specializing in qiraa‘aat, 1978. Lectures occasionally at al-Azhar.

Q. When did you begin practicing exorcism?
A. I began about nine or ten years ago.

Q. What caused you to begin?
A. I read Ibn Taymeeyah’s book on the jinn and when my friend in Taalibiyyah described his wife’s state, I realized that it was a case of possession and proceeded to treat her.

Q. What are the signs which indicate that a person is possessed?
A. Some of the signs are that a person mentions that he is uneasy, he finds himself getting up and sitting down frequently, he speaks unintelligibly, etc. This is called demonic possession (sara‘ al-jinn).

Q. What is the first thing you do when a possessed person is brought to you?
A. In the beginning, we ask the possessed if he has been treated by a physician. If he has already been treated by a doctor, we address the jinnee, saying, “Fear Allaah!” I speak to it in the same way that I speak to a human. If he is in a state of convulsion, I speak directly to the jinnee. Otherwise, I recite over him some Qur’ânic verses. Sometimes it will manifest itself during the recitation and at other times it will hide.

Q. How do you distinguish between one who is possessed and one who is sick?
A. The state of the possessed in unstable, and they usually do not come to me until after they have visited a physician or psychiatrist. Patients usually won’t come until after they have tried all other methods. In that way, we know that he is likely to be possessed or possibly under a magical spell.

Q. How do you distinguish between the effects of magic and demonic possession?
A. In the case of possession the jinn will speak immediately, yet for a patient under a magical spell the jinn will not talk. The one under a magic spell will require recitation for a long time, and he will need to take Arabic folk medicine. This is encouraged, according to the statement of the Prophet () collected by Muslim, “Whoever is able to help his brother should do so.” When the Prophet () prohibited incantations, someone stated, “O Messenger of Allaah, we have some incantations against magic and scorpions.” He said to them, “Read your incantations to me.” When they did so, he prohibited those containing idolatry and confirmed those which did not. He then said, “Whoever is able to help his brother, let him to do so.” He meant by that, for example, canceling the effects of magic from one bewitched, which may make him unable to go to his wife. He takes a double edged ax, heats it on a fire until becomes red, then he passes it over her. This does not have shirk in it. It is Arabic medicine. Such things are mentioned in Fat-h al-Baaree.
There are two ways of treating magic – one way is according to divine law (sharee‘ah) and another is not. The legal way removes it completely while the illegal method only removes it temporarily. Ibn al-Qayyim mentioned that if the effects of the spell have been present for a long time, it must be broken by Arabic medicinal methods. On the other hand, if it is recent, it may be removed by Qur’ânic verses and prophetic methods.

Q. Based upon your communication with possessing jinn, what are the main reasons why jinn possess humans?
A. The reasons are as follows:
Walking around the house naked.
Being isolated and unprotected by the prophetic morning and evening prayers.
Entering the toilet without the fortifying prayers because the toilets are among the dwelling places of the jinn.
Pouring hot water on the jinnee without mentioning Allaah’s name.
Going without making the fortifying prayers to areas of the jinn, like mountain tops and garbage dumps, hurting them by urinating on them or stepping on them – The jinn may then ignorantly hurt the person much more than he deserves. In such cases, the treatment involves addressing the jinnee and telling it that the patient had accidentally – and not intentionally – hurt it. If it was harmed in the patient’s home, it should be told that it had not right to be there in the first place, for jinn are not allowed to live in the homes of humans. Thus, the jinnee should be told that it is in the wrong. The will actually reply. Sometimes they will say, “I love him.” Other times they may threaten those in their presence by saying, “I will leave and hurt him.” In such cases, the exorcist must have strong faith and believe in the oneness of Allaah and say to the jinnee, “You are certainly not able to do anything at all because the only one who can benefit or harm is Allaah.” At that point, the jinnee will become fearful and cause the person to shake.

Q. Who are most affected by jinn, men or women?
A. Women are most affected because the jinn love beautiful women. They may even have intercourse with them. A case of possession was presented to me in which a Christian woman said that she feels something come upon her and she struggles with it but it overcomes her. I told her, “Accept Islaam and I will – by the grace of Allaah – remove it from you.” She refused, so I left her. Consentual intercourse can take place between them, but this would be a major sin because Allaah has created that which is suitable for each species. Thus, it is not allowable for humans to marry from the animal world.

Q. Do male jinn possess women and female jinn possess men, or is it possible that male jinn possess males and vice-versa?
A. In reference to those jinn who possess because of love, their love for humans is based on desire. Therefore, male jinn love women, and female jinn love men. However, there is no gender preference when humans accidentally cause harm to jinn. For example, we saw a man from Upper Egypt who knew nothing of the Qur’aan and Sunnah, but in his possessed state he would recite the Qur’aan like a trainer reciter. When the jinnee was removed, we discovered that it used to worship in a cave. The man, who was a stonemason, went into the cave and urinated and defecated in it, so the jinnee hurt him. We told the jinnee, “You are a Muslim who has memorized the Qur’aan, and spoiling this man’s mind and body is satanic.” The jinnee complied by leaving.

Q. From your experience, if a jinnee speaks, does he use the voice of the possessed person or does the voice change?
A. The voice is often different. If it is a female jinnee, it speaks with a female voice, and a male jinnee with a male voice.

Q. Can a disbelieving jinnee enter a Muslim?
A. Usually a disbelieving jinnee enters a Muslm. The conditions of the jinn are like that of humans. Some are Muslims and others are not. Some are righteous and others are not. However, it is possible for a Muslim jinnee to harm a Muslim human.

Q. Whenever you address the jinn and invite them to Islaam, do they accept it?
A. Yes. I present Islaam to them and they usually accept. I remind them of the next life and that they will have to return to Allaah. They often comply immediately. Sometimes they listen to a great deal of religious admonition, yet do not respond. The ease or difficulty of removal varies from one person to another. By using the methods involving kufr, the jinn will respond but they won’t leave permanently. If the exorcist possessed strong faith, the jinnee will respond and leave. However, if he does not, the possession of the person will continue. In the kufr methods, the jinn are called up using unlawful means, like making oaths containing shirk and kufr. For example, they say, “I swear by your seven most mighty.” In such a case shirk is involved, and assuredly the jinn will answer him and ask him what he wishes because he has exalted them. He will then ask the jinn to leave, but the jinn will ask him to do some things in return. Shaykh Ibn Taymeeyah said that one should not do anything that the jinn request. If he tells you to drink water or sacrifice an animal for him, it should not be done. If he says that he will leave for one reason or another, tell him that he must leave in obedience to Allaah and His Messenger.

Q. From your experience, how do jinn benefit from possessing humans?
A. It is from love or just desire. For example, if an ignorant man walking down the street is accidentally hurt by an intelligent person, the ignorant man decides to punish the intelligent one. What benefit does he get from that? It is just ignorance. There are prophetic traditions which indicate that the jinn may take the form of vermin, like snakes and rats. One may kill a vermin without mentioning Allaah’s name and it may have been one of them. Because, the jinn may afflict him with some punishment.

Q. How does a jinnee enter a human?
A. The Prophet () said that the devil flows in the blood streams of Aadam’s descendants. Sometimes it may have fun with the superstitious by saying that it will leave through the eye of the possessed and gouge it out or that it will leave by his leg, paralyzing it. Consequently, the true believer should not accept such statements but tell it to leave as it came. Sometimes the jinn will only leave if they are flogged.

Q. Have you found any jinn who spoke in a different language than the one possessed?
A. Yes. We found a jinnee in an Egyptian woman who spoke Urdu. He was originally from Pakistan. He said that he was on hajj and fell in love with her and returned with her to Egypt. His name was strange, incomprehensible. He said that he lived in an abandoned apartment and that he had over ten thousand children and grandchildren. Some people may hear this and ask, “How could ten thousand live in one apartment?” However, we already pointed out that they may take the form of vermin, like ants.
I also helped a Saudi married to an Egyptian woman who used to curse her husband in different languages, like English and French. I communicated with the jinnee in Arabic, and it left her after promising to do so.
Sometimes exorcists fall into shirk as a result of a jinnee. For example, when an exorcist orders a jinnee to leave a person by the permission of Allaah, but the jinnee swears that it will only leave by other than Allaah (e.g. swearing to leave by a so-called saint) and the exorcist agrees to its stipulation, this is shirk. If the exorcist strictly believes in the oneness of Allaah, he will say to it, “No. You are a liar and a pagan. You are not allowed to swear by other than Allaah. You must swear by Allaah, saying, ‘I promise Allaah to leave the person and protect her from others as much as possible. By the One who split the sea for Moses and made the winds blow Soloman, I will leave her and will not return again.’ ” And it will actually leave.

Q. When you address the jinn, do you find that they have names like humans?
A. Yes. They sometimes name themselves with human names like ‘Abdul-‘Azeez. At other times they have non-human names and incomprehensible titles.

Q. Have any of your children been affected by possession after you began treating possessed persons?
A. No, may Allaah be praised. My children recite from the Qur’aan the two chapters of protection (mu‘awwidhataan) and the opening chapter (al-Faatihah). The Qur’aan is a cure for all physical and spiritual ailments. If the people ask how disease can be resisted, the response is that resistance is granted by the Lord of the earth and the sky. The proof of this is that the companions of the Prophet () treated scorpion stings with the recitation of al-Faatihah. The sting was physical ailment and the recitation of al-Faatihah was a spiritual healing. Ibn al-Qayyim also used as proof the Almighty’s statement:
“We revealed in the Qur’aan what is a healing and mercy for the believers.”[1]
This is in reference to all forms of ailment, physical or spiritual. In several known cases when the possessed reached the door or a particular house, the jinnee screamed out, “I will never enter this place because the Qur’aan is read in it.” The Prophet () said, “If Soorah al-Baqarah is read in a house, the devil will not come near it for three days.”[2]

Q. During an exorcism have you ever found more than one jinnee in a person?
A. Yes, more than one jinnee may cause harm to a person’s body, as Ibn Taymeeyah confirmed. They will also have different voices.

Q. Could you describe the steps that you use for treatment?
A. First I ask the person being treated his name and he may say, for example, Ahmad or Muhammad. During my recitation I again ask for his name and he may say, for example, George. Therefore I know that it is a jinnee. I then ask if it is a Muslim and so on.

Q. If you communicate with the jinnee and it refuses to leave, what do you do?
A. I recite many verses of Qur’aan over him. And if it still refuses to leave, I they say, “I will drive you out with severe beating.” It becomes fearful, because humans are stronger than jinn. I saw a case in which a jinnee was in love with a woman, and I said to it, “I will read a lot of Qur’aan over you.” It replied that it loved the Qur’aan. I asked it how it could love the Qur’aan and at the same time be passionately in love with the woman. I brought a stick and hit her on the neck with it, yet the possessed woman did not feel anything. Only in cases of possession should beating be used.

Q. Do you tie the toes of the persons?
A. There are many different methods which do not contain shirk or kufr which may be used.

Q. Do you recite over water and make the possessed person drink it? Or do you use oil?
A. Yes, sometimes I have, as long as there is no shirk involved. I have used the nushrah method of stone grinding seven lotus leaves, placing this in a container of water and reciting the kawaafir (Soorah al-Kaafiroon [109], Soorah al-Ikhlaas [112], verse 255 of the second chapter and al-Faatihah) over it. The patient then drinks three mouthfuls of this and bathes with the remainder. It is a good and effective method.
When the possessed person comes, I recite verses over him, such as the four verses of Soorah al-Baqarah, “wa ilaahukum ilaahum waahid…,”[3] verse 255 of al-Baqarah and the closing verses of al-Baqarah; the last verses of Aal ‘Imraan (3) Soorah al-A‘raaf from the Almighty’s statement: “inna rabbakumullaah alladhee khalaqas-samaawaati wal-arda fee sittati ayyaamin thummastawaa ‘alal-‘arsh yghshil-laylan-nahaar…”[4] for about four verses until His statement: “innahoo laa yuhibbul-mu‘tadeen wa laa tufsidoo fil-ardi ba‘da islaahiha wad‘oohu khawfan wa tama‘an inna rahmatal-laahi qareebun minal-muhsineen”;[5] also “laqad jaa’akum rasoolun min anfusikum”;[6] Soorah al-Mu’minoon (23); Soorah as-Saaffaat (37); the ending of Soorah al-Hashr (59); and Soorah al-Kaafiroon (109).[7] This is called the small dose (jur‘ah sughraa). Those possessed always are affected by it and the jinnee usually comes out after this recitation. If the jinnee does not come out or manifest itself, I know that the person is not possessed. However, instead, he may be bewitched. Sometimes the jinnee will manifest itself while I address it after the recitation. Some cases may be delusion and therefore are called delusionary magic (sihr al-awhaam). Sometimes the person may have ailments due to bad character.
About 50 percent of the cases are brought to me are demonic possession or magic and the rest common sicknesses.
Once a woman came to me and I recited upon her, and the jinnee was burned up. It is possible for them to be burned. On another occasion a Saudi man came to me who had been bewitched by menstrual blood and sperm. He was screaming like a calf being slaughtered.

Notes:
[1] Qur’aan, 17:82.
[2] This version of the hadeeth was collected by at-Tabaraanee in al-Mu‘jam al-Kabeer, vol. 6, p. 163, no. 5864, and by Ibn Hibbaan. Both isnaads share a weaker narrator, Khaalid ibn Sa‘eed al-Madanee, as was mentioned by al-Arnaa’oot. (See al-Ihsaan fee Tarteeb Saheeh Ibn Hibbaan, vol. 3, p. 59, no. 780.) Imaams Muslim, Ahmad and at-Tirmidhee reported a hadeeth similar to this, but without a mention of a time period. (Sahih Muslim, vol. 1, p. 377, no. 1707.)
[3] Qur’aan, 2:263.
[4] Qur’aan, 7:54.
[5] Qur’aan, 7:56.
[6] Qur’aan, 9:128.
[7] This is based on upon a narration from Aboo Laylaa and collected by Ibn Maajah. However, it is not authentic due to the presence of Aboo Janaab al-Kalbee in its chain of narrators.